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Evaluation of global wind power
posted by Youssef Hassan on 11/8/2007 - Be the first to recommend this
This is the title of a paper by Cristina L. Archer and Mark Z. Jacobson (http://www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/winds/global_winds.html). The eighth item of their conclusions, in this paper, states that: "Global wind power potential for the year 2000 was estimated to be ~72 TW (or ~54,000 Mtoe). As such, sufficient wind exists to supply all the world's energy needs (i.e., 6995-10177 Mtoe), although many practical barriers need to be overcome to realize this potential." Isn't that the mankind dream to have a perpetual wind power to supply all the world's energy needs? The writers state, thru their calculations, that this dream is possible. In addition, I believe that the present technology is able to overcome the practical barriers and realize this dream. The wind turbines farms can be planted in regions, all over the globe, of the suitable wind speeds to generate electric power. These regions could be in the deserts, over the mountains, or even in middle of the oceans and seas. If it happens that the wind turbines farm is located so far from any populated areas that it is impossible to supply the electric power directly to the consumers, then I suggest in this situation that the generated electric power is utilized to decompose water into hydrogen and oxygen. Then the produced hydrogen fuel can be transferred by any means to the consumers.
www.stanford.edu/group/efmh/winds/global_winds.html
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Re: Evaluation of global wind power
posted by Ronald David on 11/9/2007 - Be the first to recommend this
Hello Youssef Hassan, All the justification in the world FOR wind generated electricity won't overcome its high cost -- cost for manufacturing turbines, for land acquisition, for installation and, for maintenance. Right now, at least in the USA, taxpayers, by act of Congress, are subsidizing that cost, else it wouldn't be happening! In addition, Congress is 'forcing' the use of some alternatives under the guise of slowing global warming. Crude oil, natural gases, hydro turbines, coal, and nuclear, are all far less expensive means of generating electricity than any alternative is. This same situation applies to most other 'alternative' sources of energy, such as geothermal and solar. Taxpayers 'subsidize' farmers for growing crops, including corn to make ethanol. Take away ALL subsidies, including tax breaks to all the industrial giants in the USA, and MAYBE alternative energy dreams might grow. Still it won't happen so long as fossil fuels flood the markets. No doubt there are 'regions' on the planet where alternative sources of energy may be cheaper than importing fossil fuels. I haven't studied that aspect. Regardless, it takes 'startup money' and home grown entrepeneurs/engineers/bankers to get programs off the ground and operating. More and more American taxpayers are deciding they should not be paying 'foreigners' to help themselves; rather we should be helping our own citizens. Re hydrogen -- if ever there is a surplus of electricity, it would be better used to import fresh safe drinking water to thirsty mankind rather than producing hydrogen gas for transportation. Big problems, much bigger than dwindling fossil fuels, bigger than costly alternatives, bigger than terrorists; already here, already threatening mankind and, are staring us in the face -- the melting artic ice caps, rising oceans, and the biggest of all and most ignored -- the human population explosion.
posted by Youssef Hassan on 11/18/2007 - Be the first to recommend this
Hello Ronald David To my knowledge, US government does not invest tax-payers revenues in any kind of investments. One of the US government roles is to encourage the investors and give them facilities to startup a pioneer and bran-new industry, provided feasibility study was executed. That makes USA a great country and superpower, and that is Capitalism. We all agreed, long time ago, that the energy supply is the world concern and affair. The goal of your invitation is to save 'the planet'. Big problems like terrorists, melting artic ice caps, rising oceans, and the human population explosion can not be solved by a 'single' country only. These big problems can be solved only 'globally'. The whole world is communicated as one 'village' and proceeds along 'globalization'. Talking about the cost, it is well known that the cost of the prototype is extremely high, because it sums the cost of many years' researches and the cost of the production line. But, the mass production reduces the cost of the product so much that product will be available for every one.
realism
posted by minkwinkdink on 1/29/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Let's inject a bit of realism into the glowing reports of what wind energy can do for us, shall we? Wind energy is not cheap, nor easily transmitted. It costs a great deal to collect. It is not cheap, and it takes a great many resources. Matter used to gather such a small % of our total need is really matter wasted. Why is it gaining popularity? People don't understand physics. Why do som many people support hybrid cars? People drive more when they think they are saving (money, Co2 output), so what is gained? Do you know what the environmental impact of all that nickel to be mined for those technologies? What about the impact of lead acid bateries themselves? How are really doing any good, we're just displacing something else and pounding our chests that we are doing something. Coal (sequestered and gassified) Natural Gas, and Nuclear will be the sources of energy (by and large, to the point of almost complete dominance) for the next 3 livetimes at least. ..REDUCE, then Re-use, recycle if you have to. Most people have it all backwards. (IE USE, USE and RECYCLE) We have to change our thinking before we can change our Carbon offset.... I wrote a book about called Wind Power...It Blows!
Renewable Objectives....
posted by goldenbrown on 5/1/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Hi minkwinkdink Your note has much truth to it. However I suspect that your angle is a bit more purer than mine. Referring to my own agenda the main objective for renewables is to provide energy security so I can enjoy my good life. After that Global security should be achievable (no more oil wars) if we relieve the pressure on energy (especially oil) supplies and then, finally, if global warming & impact to the environment is reduced all well & good. Apologies if my views offend however I think I speak for the mainstream
Wind and Hydrogen Production - International Renewable Hydrogen Transportation Demonstration Facility
posted by MachWing on 1/29/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
There has been proposed an International Renewable Hydrogen Transportation Demonstration Facility to utilize wind power and other renewables as energy sources for producing hydrogen. I have spoken with Mr. Bill Leighty, a presenter of this concept. The pilot location needs to be determined. One proposed location is in a corridor from North Dakota to Ames, Iowa. If placed here, it could be extended in almost a straight line to the Macomb, IL area and could supply part of this proposed model sustainable/hydrogen city's required hydrogen. Perhaps there could be developed a hybrid distributed/centralized energy infrastructure in and to Macomb. This would allow the area to produce as much of its own energy as possible and supplement it with the centralized source from the IRHTDF. See my post on this board about Model Sustainable or Hydrogen Cities and the below link to the Leighty Foundation for additional information about how these plans may synergize.
www.leightyfoundation.org/earth.php
Oops - That should be "Transmission" not "Transportation"
posted by MachWing on 1/30/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
My mistake. I guess we're supposed to be transmitting the hydrogen, not transporting it. That would make it the International Renewable Hydrogen Transmission Demonstration Facility.
Missing Energy Link
posted by chala on 6/24/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Solar energy, Wind Energy, Geothermal Energy we already have the technology to make it work efficiently, the only problem is how to store the excess energy so that it can be used later and not wasted. So far we have developed batteries like Li-ion but it is still not enough aside from its very high cost.
greenfuelpower.blogspot.com
clean safe nuclear fusion
posted by noblefuse on 6/16/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Hello, my name is Solomon Azar- I HAVE FOUND THE ROAD TO SAFE CLEAN NUCLEAR FUSION- When this is found and understood- the energy crisis will end- I have been looking at this system since 2002 and it is perfect in every way. I finished my experiments upon an interesting date of palm sunday-2007. I have since that time tried to the best of my abilities to inform many people upon the net- there is no question I have done so in an unorthodox manner- but in time it will be found my road traveled to solve this energy crisis was unorthodoxed -all my motives are for the betterment of mankind- you have your way- I have mine- it will make complete sense when heard in public of my approach- have faith :) I have performed an experiment never done before in science- I used a Tesla coil for its use in high voltage high frequency and apply its discharge plasma not upon the dielectric of free air- but to the dielectric of water itself- specifically I used ultrapure reagent grade water from manufacture NERL-this is to establish the high degree of insulation needed for plasma (you cannot have contaminants for conductivity)- I doped my water with heavy water from the manufacturer UNITED NUCLEAR- I built my 1 million volt Tesla coil entire tunable- every aspect of it- as it must be done to TUNE THE OUTPUT DISCHARGE OF THE TESLA COIL to the water itself- once the arc is stable- the voltage may be increased- I have written in my pdf file in my website of noblefuse.com that a prerequisite of 750 kv is needed as an electric field gradient about the charged particles used in fusion( in this case the hydrogen bound in the water molecule) because of voltage drops as expected as in all electrical systems upon the load (load here is the water)- a much higher voltage is needed in order to distribute the voltage gradient upon entire arc plasma length between electrodes in water- THUS- THE HIGH THE VOLTAGE- THE BETTER- within my website you will find a link to youtube showing my primitive experiment- BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT THIS- THIS IS THE FIRST TIME EVER DONE BEFORE - I propose nuclear fusion of water/heavy water- my little experiment IS THE ROAD TO NUCLEAR FUSION- we must universally connect the dots- put two and two together- and conclude this- MY EXPERIMENT MUST BE REPEATED ON A LARGER SCALE-
noblefuse.com
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Clean Safe Nuclear Fusion?
posted by bill f. on 6/16/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
It sounds like you are trying to make hydrogen with electricity? Please tell us how you use this system to do some work. We normally think of nuclear power plants that generate steam to run turbine gen-sets for making electricity, correct? I have faith in that what you have done is novel and it will benefit someone; I just hope " The Corporate World", doesn't get to you and buy your technology; just to keep it from the masses! That is why we don't get much over 40mpg even with hybrids! Thanks, Bill f.
The trouble with sub-atomic destruction
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 6/18/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Solomon- maybe you could have some input on this theory of mine... I've noticed that the 'orbitals' fall in a pattern of two sets of prime numbers, of contrary 'spin'. Prime numbers are those numbers that remain, all multiples of all other numbers having been removed. It seems probable to me that this order of the 'orbitals' has come about as the settlement of countless waves of some kind as they cancel eachother and interfere, finally arriving at the stability of 'structure' represented by the prime numbered measure of the 'orbitals', since only prime numbered 'waves' could co-exist. If our corner of the universe is the immense and immeasurable stability of these 'waves' of atomic structure, then to introduce destruction of that order is to introduce new waves that do not 'fit' and could destroy just as easily as they could be destroyed, since they need not be prime relative to our corner of the universe. To me, it is potentially to destroy the fabric of the sub-atomic foundation of our world simply to avoid discovering God's blessings in the easy labor of our natural daily chores.
Wasted Energy
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 6/1/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
I'm beginning to learn what is meant that God created mankind in His image. God in His early dealings with man is like a young man, or a primative group, violent and judgmental. Later, He deals with mankind like a grandfather or like a truly advanced civilization, patient, self-sacrificing and merciful. Primative man cannot be a pest to mankind, which would make a cancer of the heart, but like a child to love and raise with patience. Energy will be the result of success, not the cause.
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posted by bill f. on 6/1/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Energyville's concept is all about being pro-active in all of the energy fields. With gas approaching $4.00 per gallon, we all must learn to be pro-Active. !. To begin with its 55 mph and cruse for any thing at or below 65 posted mph. I already have seen better mpg and the folks that pass get passed at the next light or traffic jamb, so what gains have they made? No hand signals yet but some pull in behind and adjust their cruse also and that is the reason for a bumper sticker. Look for a bumper sticker if it makes the news: " Driving 55 MPH to save MY money " either or both " It's your gas just pass with CLASS" This summer we are working on some home grown products. 1. Modified 1989 4 cyl clunker for best mpg. 2. Converting it to hybrid. 3. Converting it to NEV. 4. Installing smaller industrial engine or diesel engine. I have most of the toys, lets see how much free time I can muster and how much it costs?
safe nuclear fusion
I concur- and when my system of clean safe fusion energy is proven to solve our energy crisis- it shall fuel a unified world for all gods inhabitants- not just the chosen few
Response
Solomon- Any man who can make his own tesla coil stands above any crowd I've ever seen! I believe that the work God does on one soul is worth more than any work that any of us could ever do for all mankind. I also believe that independant research like yours is worth more than the research of several universities with all of their funding, staff, and resources. To that end, I wonder. If the particles are accellerated by frequency, yet in motion from one direction to the opposite direction, the motion must slow to zero at reversal, all previously gained velocity being lost. Therefore, increase frequency cannot increase velocity of collision. Second, if such a collision did produce, through sub-atomic destruction, more energy than required for the cycle, then the cycle would be destroyed by reason of being overpowered. I also think of solutions to these questions, but I wonder for your answers, since I have little interest, knowledge, or experience in this area.
DIY Power
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 6/10/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Here's another power source that would have saved me a few months of toil. Take two spools of slightly different diameter mounted on one axle. Raise a loaded pulley with a cord wound in one direction around the larger spool and the opposite direction around the smaller spool. The ratio of the difference in diameters of the spools to the remainder will be the power of your lift. Thank you to my good neighbor for that old tool in his garage. And here's one from my Grandad. Ground a cord with a stake. Take two cords from that stake to two other stakes. Branch each of those stakes two more times. The result will be stronger than the roots of a tree.
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Hope, labor, and time
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 4/29/2008 - This comment was recommended 3 times
When people first get an idea to do something, to be something, they take that first step and decide immediately that the path is hopeless. Taking that first class at a community college, giving that first listen to a son, wife or daughter, picking that first guitar string, whittling that first stick, knitting that first turn, trenching that first garden, all seems hopeless at first. The reason is that it takes time. If we have room for more nuclear plants to power TVs, I'm sure we have room for more individuals to give strength to their own souls through labor.
Hope, labor and time
posted by bill f. on 4/29/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Good Post that is shared by a lot of us in thought, word and deed.
labor motion power
posted by Earthdayeveryday on 5/4/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
to think labor, is a lot of hard work, and i think only few pisoners will go for such idea in modern time. but in labors has the movement, tranformed to generate power. they invent a counter that keep track of metres with every step. if everyone collected them and dogs, pets, instead of clicking, we actually store energy? we now uses the ocean wave motion, and even energy between hot ocean surface and the cold ocean floor for power. so this is really amazes, overlooked places, not fossil or nuclear, etc. just uses the movement, or labor, convert this to other forms of power!
weight motion energy power storage
posted by Earthdayeveryday on 5/5/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
I thought to make another. Piezoelectric can transfer weight and motions to the energy power storage. All doors when opened or closed generate the energy power storage, all chairs in the classroom with the weight of student generates the energy power storage. Make under roads, the car travels over and just squeezes out the energy power storage. These are good ways of labor weight motion to convert for energy power storage!
Storage
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/5/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
EdEd- I feel you should take up a personal artistic hobby and learn it well. All the principles of industry are mastered in any one art. That aside, I am very interested in storage mechanisms, as you seem to have recognized. Please, do you have some idea about how much pressure can be applied to a piezo-electric crystal without causing fracture or destruction, and if the force is stored, and what kind of efficiency curve there is on the output? I should do the research myself, but I am completely sick of wasting my time on so many academic resources that repeat the same bogus garbage over and over. I will be grateful to you if you have already labored for general knowledge on this specific subject.
123
posted by Earthdayeveryday on 6/6/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
This IS a tiny solar calclutor what run on the lights in the kitchen! amazes! i should could make these chep things and just to collect waste of energy. That light going nowherE!!! Let's caught this running energy like water just going down the drain, so just to take some of that splashes and RECYCLE ENERGY.
First time poster
posted by JohndeOliveira on 6/8/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Hello everyone, just wanted to introduce myself as a first time poster on this website. I just wanted to agree with your statement regarding our tendencies to give up rather easily when the path becomes difficult. When you apply your statement on hope, labor, and time towards energy issues I think that it does apply to our current situation. We have to be patient with the technologies and innovations that we have and allow them to progress and develop so we can use them in our pursuit to level off our carbon usage. But sometimes I also think that maybe patience is not a great virtue when it comes to our climate issue. Our biggest obstacle with this problem is time, when will the time come when we have done so much damage that the consequences will be irreversible? Maybe this is why some people are demonstrating impatience with our current technologies and methods of extracting energy. Perhaps we are not working fast enough? Just something to ponder....
Patience and Virtue
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 6/8/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Nice post, John. I hope you stick with this forum. Since the dawn of fossil fuel, there has been a global strategy that has culminated in world government through interest rates, London centered, along with a London centered global academic system, and London centered world government policy. It has also culminated in most citizens of the United States being terribly under the rule of interest payments and 'satisfied' to be called 'consumers'. Who should hurry to undo this mess? My friend, they will only hurry to avoid the gift of the fruits of their own labor, and to take that chance of liberty from any who will let them. Those patriots who wish to join us, independantly, and fight for their right to their own productive assets and resources face a long road against an unstoppable global machine. That road begins with the smallest steps.
Future Electric Demands
posted by Robert3568 on 5/20/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
The United States has an ever expanding need for electricity and electric generation plants, if the United States were to rebuild its aging flood control structures with flood control structures equipped with hydroelectric generators it would be able to supply the electricity needed with a renewable energy source. The Annual Energy Report 2006 states that in 2006 the United States used 3,820 Million Mega-watt-hours (United States Department of Energy/Energy Information Agency 223. The Annual Energy Outlook 2008 predicts electric consumption in the United States to reach 5,149 Million Mega-watt-hours by the year 2030 (Energy Information Agency 7). The amount of electricity generated by a hydroelectric generator is directly related to the height of water above the turbine and also the amount of water flowing through the turbine. There are hydroelectric generators available for low discharge height and also low flow. There are over 79,000 dams in the United States with heights of 25 feet or more (National Inventory of Dams), many of which are in need of repair. In the 1940’s and 1950’s as part of a flood control and watershed program 10,000 dams were constructed in 47 states (United States Department of Agriculture 1). The earliest of the watershed flood control structures have now reached the end of their planned service life of 50 years. Sixty-two percent of these 10,000 structures will reach age 50 by 2020. When rebuilding these dams if they were rebuilt with hydroelectric generators they could provide a renewable energy source contributing to the countries growing need for electricity. The Tennessee Valley Authority operates 29 hydroelectric dams and produced 9.9 Million Mega-watt-hours in 2006. To allow for low flow dams if we outfitted half of the 79,000 dams with hydroelectric generators over the next 20 years, based on the success of the TVA, we could produce all of our 2006 annual electric usage. TVA Power Facts. Tennessee Valley Authority. United States Bureau of Reclamation. Association of State Dam Safety Officials. National Inventory of Dams. U.S. Army Topographic Engineering Center. United States. Department of Agriculture. Rehabilitation of Aging Watershed Flood Control Dams. United States. Department of Energy/Energy Information Agency. Annual Energy Review 2006. United States. Energy Information Agency. Annual Energy Outlook 2008. Washington: EIA, 2007
Awesome!
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/21/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
What a great contribution! Why not re-do the new-deal hydroelectrc infrastructure with modern technology instead of build Europe's plans for nuclear facilities! It seems like a solution so very close to reality, but without your suggestion, who in America would have thought of it? Not me, I can tell you, and I keep a pretty open mind! Most individuals out there just don't realize that their particular perspective is of great value to all of us!
Ideas and Action
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/23/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Robert, There are two times that human beings close their mind to ideas and insist on taking action. One is when they feel that their physical possessions are threatened, or that they have a chance to increase them. The other is when they feel that their personal power in a bureaucratic system is threatened, or that they have a chance to increase it. Both of these forces have reached historically unprecedented levels of global collusion through fossil fuel abundance. Individuals acting through virtue of their relationship with the Creator will find many opportunities in the coming centuries, but not without resistance from these groups. For example, the threat felt in Tennessee as expressed through recent education legislation there.
Balance
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/6/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
This is a partial idea...all chemical reactions are a balance of tensions of the whole system, including the test-tube, the room, the building, the planet, the universe. If the gasses of the atmosphere are balanced differently, it is because the chemistry of the earth is balanced differently. I think it may be important to look at not only oxides of carbon, sulphur, and phosporus, but also the massive reductions of the oxides of iron, aluminum, and calcium. The only contribution I have is that if an endothermic reaction solidifies gaseous oxides at ground level more quickly than trees, then more will be balanced to ground level for processing. I just am running out of energy to look for solutions along these lines, given the confusion in modern math and chemistry that I've had to trudge through.
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Whoa!
posted by k9wachr on 5/6/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Do you mean like CO2 is in tension of the sky and the earth, so if its raised in the sky, than it should go more in the earth? Maybe just the earth being covered with cities that stops the CO2 from going back underground??? Or maybe there's this secret place on the earth like at the poles, only for CO2, were the earth acepts the gas but not this time becuase its just been covered by a gas station! Or maybe its just that the earth is getting warmer and the oceans keep less CO2 so they just give it up to the sky. Theres a CO2 cycle, so we should now more about all types of chemical reactions going into other things before we just talk about the sky getting more CO2. Right?
posted by bill f. on 5/6/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
No matter what anybody says about all the elements on, above or below out earth it is simple science: it depends on the weight for pure elements and combined weight of compounds. some float and some sink due to their weight. Pure CO2 sinks according to my chemistry text book. Some of the other factors that change things is temperature and wind speed. Cold falls and takes some things with it. Thermal currents rise and also take some things with them. Hills, valleys, mountains, forrests, buildings etc. negate the effect of wind currents that cool and mix; that is something future cities are going to have to factor into their designs. In addition to plant consumption of CO2, the ground absorbs some due to it's puddling effect and frozen CO2 resides in many deep water pools. This includes the great lakes on our planet and the deepest oceans. The amount of CO2 in our atmosphere is so small that we must burn fossil fuels to fill the demand for commercial grade CO2 gas. You should also be mindful of some other gasses that can be beneficial if they are properly harvested or harmful if they simply bubble up and contaminate our atmosphere. Methane is one great example and the good news is that some of the larger oil companies are looking to methane ice as a partial replacement fuel for heating, electricity and transportation. Our greatest risk from global warming is a massive release of the methane trapped in the oceans as they heat up and ignition of that much fuel would truly be catestrophic. We should mine it and reduce part of the risk thru consumption. Just like oil, the earth continues to produce it from decaying plant and animal matter no matter what we do. As individuals, we can best serve ourselves and everybody else by putting recycling on sterroids: 1. recycled paper saves trees. 2. recycled plastic saves oil. 3. recycled waste water saves drinking water and eventually goes back to it's sources. 4. recycled glass and metals saves up to 85% of the energy it takes to make virgin materials. 5. recycled goods saves materials, labor and money. 6. we even have a site in Ft Worth, Tx that crushes and recycles concrete into paving materials. 7. We also have a plant that turns asphalt shingles into paving materials and the nails into scrap metal. That is only the tip of that subject and many of you know more about that than I ever will.
K9
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/12/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
"Consumerism" is about feeding people ideas and goods and keeping them from producing their own ideas and goods. Nature will force us to change that. If you want to know more about producing your own opinions, you should read Aristotle 'Organon'. It's about 200 pages and has been confused in the course of history, but if you read it through several times, you will get a good start in knowing the natural order of ideas. If you want to learn more about chemistry, you should make a careful study of a small fire (the latin root of chemistry is 'fire').
Here's More
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/17/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Here's some help, since it appears possible to me that few people in the modern world understand the simplicity and beauty of ancient logic. These are the fundamental forms of a simple premise: Positive Singular Negative Singular Positive Universal Negative Universal Positive Particular Negative Particular Positive Indefinite Negative Indefinite If you or anyone else needs help re-learning the use of the natural reason, please contact me through the link.
Our System is Too Good
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/9/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Sorry to be hogging this board, but as long as contrbutions pop into my head, I'm going to share them. It's pretty nice to have politicians that are so responsive to democratic ideals and the voices of the constituents. Few places on earth can boast such a condition. But I would like to send a message back, that even the best can be in excess. There were quite a few complaints about rising energy prices last summer. This year, with the food prices also affected, there are four new large gardens on our small street. Politicians should consider that signals can be sent back to the people through pricing, but it takes patience to watch the industry of people develop. To jump too quickly on central government solutions to complaints is to undermine that vital national spirit of industry.
If a little will do some sometimes a lot will do a lot of good.
posted by bill f. on 5/10/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Last year we had a stand alone garden: 4 tomato plants stood alone 2 in front and 2 in the back flower garden and it was about the same for green peppers. We had a good tomato crop and a bumper pepper crop. This year we are up yo 17 rows that also include yellow squash, carrots, red, green and yellow beans. We also have raddishes, lechuga and other salad condiments. I think this week we will plant some green onion seeds and pot some spices but it is a little late for our summer crop. We will also have a fall garden. Our rainfall, this year, has kept water costs at a minimum.
Solar Energy
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/11/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
We have four trees that we pollard, and I use the years growth for my furnace charcoal. My father in-law puts me to shame. He has 22 healthy nut trees on a spot of ground about the same size. We've increased our garden use, and rediscovered many old ways of conserving water, time, and labor and getting the most out of the ground. It's an educated decision about what to grow on a small spot of ground, but the savings in energy to the civilization is many times the value of a solar panel, especially when you consider transportation and packaging. The only places that fall way behind on being able to contribute to the GDP in this valuable way are most of the energy efficient developments in California that I know of, where the square inches of the westerly facing fenestration products are legislated, and the back yards are not even big enough for a garden bench.
Energyville; back to the basics:
posted by bill f. on 5/8/2008 - This comment was recommended 1 time
The environment and ecosystem of Energyville could require minimum amounts of commercial energy by choosing loop systems that depend on the earth's natural resources of: sun, wind, geothermal heating and cooling plus lots of the right kind of insulation. That concept along with walking or bicycling from point to point would make it a very low polution lifestyle. By integrating as many hand or muscle powered occupations and the there could be a lifestyle that followed our forefathers with most of our modern ammenities. Treddle sewing machines are complex machines that can do a lot of work and I think there are some new copies in production even now. Those machines show the lack of limits with that basic technology.
Technology
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/8/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Bill- The limits with most 'man-powered technology' is that we never think of arrangements outside of one individual or outside of the movements of the major limbs (hands and feet). If you take sewing, for an example, the actual force it takes to drive a needle and thread for a stitch is something like an ounce over an inch. If a man steps onto a one-foot platform, it should (ideally) be able to drive (16oz*200lbs*12 inches) 64,000 needle stitches.
Explanation
Bill- Let me see if I get this right. The question about labor, production, and the 'real value' of people is an old one. We can both agree, I think, that the best use of people as far as a civilization is concerned, is that use which gives the most value. The individual possible choices (as customer) for the most valuable uses (as producer) are determined by the circumstances. When there is plenty of fuel for production, we have the opportunity to believe that our contribution is more valuable to the civilization than the fuel we consume. As fuel in excess of our more immediate needs diminishes, the value of our daily contributions will be more accurately and immediately apparent in our daily transactions. Circumstances will determine the available options for production. But we also have the opportunity in times of excess to plan ahead. We have the opportunity to make options available for the future that will not be there if we do not consider the likely outcomes. It will do no good whatsoever to believe that in the future we will go on shipping the product of labor across oceans instead of local producers training our own people. Under pressure to produce immediate needs, a future people will be unable to consider provisions at that time. Given a people under pressure to meet demands of food and water, I can guarantee you that the day will go to the tyrant who forces labor or armies in a wasteful and careless fashion. Even today, there are many and terrible uses of the hands and minds of man. To me, the best use of the willing hands and mind is in ascent to the study of beauty through the arts...the carver in wood and stone, the painter and drawer, the sculpture and metalworker. For those who choose freedom from apprenticing in these studies, they should have available a means to contribute for their sustenance without oppression, for which these machine concepts are designed, though the principle has yet to be understood. All other mass production tasks, like many that you describe, are best left to automation and computer switching whenever possible. I hope this gives a better idea about why I'm on a mission to convey the reasons for the potential of the use of labor in the kinds of arrangements described.
Incidents
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 4/23/2008 - This comment was recommended 4 times
Incidently, the fact that labor has never been fully considered as a possible energy source for energyville is the very reason that it should not be excluded from the discussion.
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Consistent Viability
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 4/23/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
"There are many alternatives to powering a city, but which ones offer consistent viability over the long term? Here's my answer. I'm using this 'primative' machine now. It's only a prototype, but I could pay myself $40 an hour while reading and drinking a beer, and I'd still come out ahead.
Hand labor = Hand crafted products:
posted by bill f. on 4/24/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Marks Venue is in products made from priceless hardwoods, I have seen some of his slabs. Wood and stone sculptors don't use jack hammers or computer controlled devices to produce their masterpieces. The most expensive furniture is usually made from real wood and hand finished. Certainly, craftsmen would have a place in any Energyville that I could be a part of. We are seeing a resurgence of handcrafting from people like Mark to the lady that makes beautiful bead necklaces; Handmade using wallpaper and acrylic hardeners. Try and buy a 6" X 20" X 8' slab of exotic hardwood for under a grand. In my published Energyville plans, I have always linked Live, Work, Play, Shop, Medical, Religion and etc from one location.
Skilled and Uskilled Labor
Bill- Moving workstations around to skilled labor, for example, instead of making the skilled labor move around to the work stations can't be beat. I call skilled labor any work that requires the hands and eyes. But engineers have never worked much on the problem of using unskilled labor, because cheep alternatives have been available throughout the modern industrial times. Also, people are generally afraid that the use of unskilled labor means slavery. So consider the value of man as a power source, and the result of engineering for it. First, decentralized production would be a result, since it almost always saves energy to bring the machine to the power source, instead of the power source to the machine. It would save distribution costs, since I would not get from overseas what I could trade for with my neighbor. Also, there would be a natural check on the exploitation of the laborer, since an individual laborer could use his labor for his own good if the benefit of organization did not pay for itself. That is not true today. We must drive to work at the office to pay our mortgages, even if it does not contribute to our national wealth. Second, man is a very efficient user of bio-fuel, and in addition to that, a very efficient machine that can start and stop with great power on the moment, as opposed to engines that drain power at starting and stopping, and usually must be run continuously while in use. If the force of unskilled labor is scaled and applied almost directly to the exact tool/material interface (i.e., through simple mechanical arrangement), the result is incredible efficiency gains to the civilization, even if the Keynesian system becomes dysfunctional in the process.
Unskilled labor
Mark, all labor is unskilled until they are trained and get in their learning curve; This includes college graduates with Masters Degrees. My oldest Daughter has an MBA and she would be the first to admit that she too had to pay her DUEs after graduating. To that end a lack of education means nothing to me; 20 people out of the 200+ that I worked with in South America could read and write. Show them what to do and they were like a Chicken on a June Bug; Quality and pride in a job well done was at the head of their list. I love to work with those kind of folks as they listen, respect you, work their hands to the bone and appreciate all you try to do for them.
Unskilled and Skilled Labor: part # 2
posted by bill f. on 5/7/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Mark, In my first industrial job I worked in the plating department for a large auto maker. One of the men that had seniority on me was retarded and tongue tied. The man knew his job and worked harder than most of his piers. We all respected him and helped him any time he needed it. I found out later on that his dad was a General Foreman but that was not what motivated me. He is one of the reasons I push to bring more manufacturing jobs back to the USA. There are a lot of potential workers that are not candidates for colledge degrees but they need to work and make excellent workers in a mechanical environment. I had more education than he had but n the beginning; He was a more skilled worker than I was.
Unskilled Labor
Bill- This forum is almost work now, when some of these geo-political events are gut-wrenching, yet there's a need to keep keeping on. We have a long way to go and a lot of ways to get there with this world, though! My take on the energyville labor concept is that machines to use major muscle groups for power in a healthy arrangement is a whole 'nother ball game. It includes a whole different concept for raw materials, for distribution, for agency, for the work itself, for trade...all due to rising costs of fuel. You appreciate the brains it takes to make the hands work a task with efficiency, and so do I. We also appreciate the gains of computer switching, mechanization, and any other technology that increases value and decreases labor and repetition. But it is another world away to recognize that if we had a line drive driven by well-engineered rockers and all the beer you can drink, we could not build enough chairs to meet the demand, and we would still save two of them for ourselves!
Energy & enviroment as a system
posted by adam pondaaga on 4/25/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Hello mr. Mark and mr. Bill I’m not an active writer in this forum but I’m still faithfull to follow this discussion. I think the basic thinking of us is almost the same that is we concern about the world energy and environmental, but the problem is how we look to the energy & environmental. May I give you a suggestion ? I mean something like this. We all know about the hand phone ( HP ). We still remember when there are only some person who owned the HP and then today, I don’t know how many people owned the HP. Look the HP as a system ( the factory, the outlet seller, the person who buy / sell and so on ). The question is how many money are being dragged by the HP system and why ? And also remember about the auto/car system start from T Ford model ; the aviation system start from the Wilbur and Orville Wright era. Why that three example as a system can be growing up ? Like in the meteorology lesson, the cumulonimbus cloud has three stage that is growing stage, mature stage and dying stage. Back to the world energy & environmental. During T Ford & early aviation era we have not this energy & environmental crisis, also world population may be only half from today. But as the time goes on and also all the systems are growing up that’s why the oil price become uncontrollable, follows the Adam Smith theory ( demand and supply ). I think the way out is, demonstrate to the world that State of Hawaii can be a place where no pay for electricity and gasoline ( step 2 from my last comment ). About the world environmental, I think it’s means we must create a new system that’s responsible for the world weather, climate, forest and so on. To keep this system running well it must be money speaking ( how many money are being dragged by the HP system ). From where is the money coming from ? From the step 3 of my last comment. And in the last may be will we mumble so that the world has it’s own self repairable system, isn’t it ? I'm sorry, I give you a homework why the space exploration system didin't growing up like the 3system that have I give to you ?
Answers to Adam's Energy QWuestions
posted by bill f. on 4/26/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Adam, glad to read your work again. I have some of your same concerns. How we look at energy and the environment may well differ as well as the solutions that we may support. I probably write a total of 3 to 5 pages per day or between 1500 and 2000 per year. That may make me an active writer but I read 5 times the amount of pages that I write and that makes me an avid reader. “Your question is how many money are being dragged by the HP system and why”? I have 5 Cell phones in my name because it is cheaper for us 4 family members that need to stay in touch or handle our calls with and we all pay our own monthly fees. Today’s technology works like a laptop but are the size of a checkbook. That is “WHY”. Before you say too much about today’s transportation, realize that they all are still almost as crude as using a stick or rock for a hammer. All of today’s transportation is still at the mercy of the earth’s gravity and that is one reason it costs so much for fuel to operate them. If you would simply read up on documented history for the past 2000+ years; there have always been stumbling blocks that range from famines, coal or wood shortages and etc. All life on this planet is subject to immediate extinction with the right chain of events and even that is cyclical to some extent. Adam Smith and his theory ( demand and supply ) can not take credit for today’s high energy prices as the touted shortages are contrived as of now. The high prices are due to Commodity traders running up crude oil prices and governmental feuds. Most commodities are probably on credit cards and the next shortage may well be “MONEY” if markers are called in! “About the world environmental”: Just as you think “we must create a new system that’s responsible for the world weather, climate and forests; I think that is as impossible as Babble trying to build a tower to heaven. My logic, “ Man’s Greed + Earth’s FORCES”! Adam, if you and I are lucky; we may live to be 100+ years old and the average life of a planet is WHAT? Keep in mind that Global Cooling ALWAYS has followed Global Warming and then the cycle starts all over again. My logic, “History from 1250 A.D. to present”.
posted by bill f. on 4/27/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Adam, in reference to your last question. "I give you a homework why the space exploration system didin't growing up like the 3system that have I give to you ?" First off "GOOD NEWS" never is as plentiful or travels as fast as bad news and that is why "Energyville accomplishments" happen and go un-noticed. Our world is in conflict over food, energy, religion, etc and as a result that is what makes the headlines. A few years ago there was a "cold war" betweem the USA and the Russian government. Our people and theirs seem to be good friends on the International Space Station. We should call it "ET-Energyville", our next frontier. How much more ROI can we ask for than our Win-Win in outer space? You think we have problems outside our homes? Atleast we don't have to bring our own air, YET. There is cutting edge technology being developed in space, right now that will not effect us for more than 20 years. We have a lot to be thankful for, despite our problems.
The Ox
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 4/27/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
The Ox is unclean and lives in a muddy stable, but much produce comes through the Ox. -Proverbs (paraphrased) It's nice that many people take comfort for a time in cleanliness and order, but the reality is that new knowledge and innovation comes from places that look 'poor' where there are resources available to learn from and disorderly places where knowledge can form on a foundation without immitation. Nice and orderly societies fail to appreciate the appearance of the birthplaces of wisdom and innovation.
Answer to mr. Bill
posted by adam pondaaga on 4/28/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Hello mr. Bill, I think we differ due to we live in a different country, language etc. In read, answer & write this e mail, a dictionary is always beside me but it doesn’t matter as long as our goal is still the same (looking for a way out in this world energy & environmental ). Why are you so pessimis mr.Bill ? ( The high prices are due to Commodity traders running up crude oil prices and governmental feuds. Man’s Greed + Earth’s FORCES ). I live in one of the best co……. country in the world and the year 2010 is my retired year after 35 year work in an oil company. I hope we may live until 100+ years old, hale and healthy; may God bless us, our family and country. I still optimis mr. Bill. I still can not give a definition about the system. Money is another shape of energy like credit card and so. Back to the HP system, it’s factory (all brand), seller outlet, people who working on, etc. Why the HP system can still growing up ? ( apart from the commodity trader, governmental feuds and so on ). With the HP system still growing up didn’t it’s means that more money ( more energy ) will be dragged up by this system ?. World energy system. Together with a course of time, the transportation system is also growing up ( T.S. for simple & easy definition is a human activity against earth gravity which used machine ) which where we know this machine is a good fossil fuel glutton. How if this machine is a good green leaf glutton ? Isn’t the world problem today is a green leaf ? And we have ever has this good green leaf glutton machine that is a horse. And then how is the way out ? We can not stop/reduce the product of this good fossil fuel glutton machine; as long as there was (a demand ) the factory will always pop out of their product ( supply ). Back to the step 2 /State of Hawaii , show to the world that Hawaii is a place where no pay for electricity and gasoline, I think it will have a great impact to the oil price today. My basic way of thinking is UN Climate Change Conference Bali – Indonesia ( 3–14 Dec 2007 ). One of their decision is to get emission tax . I think if we talk about tax (an un symphatetic face will we received ). At step 3 /State of Hawaii (operated by a professional people), I don’t know what is the money for. As I said before, a system need energy to run it well and then that is the money which will be used for running the world enviromental system. Regard, adamfp
More answers for Adam's questions:
Adam, I have no idea what country you come from but we all have similar problems no matter where we choose to live. I am just as loyal to my country "THE USA" as you are yours. Back to the HP, man has tried to increase his communication range since we first learned to communicate and until we can be teleported great distances instantly; better communication devices will be built as technology advances. My concept for Energyville placed all 10 million inhabitants with in a 25 mile range and cell phones would work as good for inner city communications and world communications as they do today. Here in the USA we now have complicated communicators with still cameras, Video cameras, phones, 2 way radios and the new PDA lets us travel the WEB. Mine are just like a small lap-top computer and the touch screen is big enough to read and easier to use too. The cost of fuel is on such a rise, for my reason already given, that companies are looking for 4 day work weeks, next will come schools that give home work and require weekly visits. Even the US military is screaming at Congress and our President. Alternative fuels have consumed enough food stocks that even areas not in a drought are making a run on food stocks causing those prices to spike up. We say that the best place to hide something is in plain sight. There is no energy shortage in this country, there is a shortage of problem solvers that can come up with viable alternatives. Everything in this country can be ran on plain old AC & DC- electricity and that is a fact. There are quite a few electric sources that are not only polution free but require no combustable or fissionable fuel of any kind. Some Trains & Busses already run on electricity hooked to the grid. Logically the next thing would be freight trucks and at some time our personal vehicles. Once trucks are on board they could act as tugs to drag PV's behind them. That is why My ears perk up when I hear PROMISES of change because you can bet the required changes will cause a few to shoulder what will benefit the masses. My suggestion to those few is this: Invest in this type of technology and then promote the cost benefits. We all KNOW that there are NO free rides anymore!!!!
How fast beneficial technology surfaces:
posted by bill f. on 4/30/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Yesterday you were questioning the cost benefits from growing the HP ( cell phone ), I listed some technology advances. Today my Yahoo News posted information on "Star Trek" cell phone technology. If you ever saw their medical scanning device called a tri-corder; a form of that science fiction device is now fact. Would that Energyville technology could come along as fast. It looks like we lost a Bio-diesel plant here in Texas. They just could not compete with the real "truck soup" produced by MA Nature. Not all technology survives the test of time.
Space exploration
Hello mr. Bill, I’m sorry mr. Bill and I hope you still unconcerned about my theory in space exploration system. This is one of the example that due to we were living in a different country, language etc. the misunderstanding became a reality. My aim in this space exploration system is all the country in the world which where involve in space exploration system like Japan, Rusia, Europa, China and so on. If we compare the space exploration system to the HP system, the avation system and so, in my view in this past ten years no significant progress step ahead in the S.E. system. So that for me there must be some thing wrong in this S.E system. What is wrong ? I don’t know for sure what is happen but I remember the event when mr. I. Sykorsky invented the swash plate ( to make the helicopter more pilot’s controllable ). I hope with this e mail our differ became more narrow and we can more concentrate to our goal ( energy & environmental ). About Babble theory. I see the pornography also as a system and this system to me seems still alive ( still growing up ). You can compare the pornography in early year 1970 – 1990 – and today. The actress and actor became more pretty and handsome and it’s shooting location became more first class hotel / place. What does it’s means ? For me it’s means more money are being dragged ( the system still alive ) ( money is another shape of energy or the energy some time can be in money shaped ). And if you ( mr. Bill ) asked me : hello adam, have you any way out to kill this pornography system. My answer is simple : No. It’s better you ask me about the way out of space exploration system or energy / environmental system, may be I can answer that question. For me that is the Babble theory. Regard, adam fp
The space Exploration system and the Tower of babel
posted by bill f. on 4/28/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Adam, you listed Japan, Russia, China,Europe and left out the USA; why was that since the space station is mainly as a result of the efforts of Russia and the USA. It may be 10 or 20 years before some advancements are made known to us. I think that our next President will sign on to more space exploration. Frankly, we don't have a MOTHER ship or smaller ships for long range exploration. Don't confuse scientific advancements with space exploration. Mars will probably be the next planet we set foot on? The story on the tower of babel, takes place in ancient Babylonia and comparing impossible tasks to that project is common by most people familiar with the story. I don't waste much time on TV, Movies, Music and recreational reading of fictional stories. Pornography is neither productive or even entertainment, in my oppinion; it is just another distraction. Adam I am married almost 50 years to the same loving wife and we have children. That is why I have never needed pornography for anything. Adam, Pesimistic is on one side, optimistic is on the other side but I count myself as being more realistic and logical and that is usually someplace in the middle.
Systems
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/2/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Adam- To me, the "Keynsian" money system was valuable as a kind of psychological energy system, motivating people to produce 'value'. That kind of value is over and above the natural energy requirements of production because the energy required for production was increasing every year, providing a way (interest) to allocate itself to the next most valuable use. As the energy production begins a decrease, interest is no longer a return, but a loss. Eventually, the value of money will be energy used for heat, work, and food much more than less necessary provisions. That kind of system will require a government to provide regulation of local places for changing labor or fuel for money and money for fuel directly (there won't be too much room for excessive licensing, taxing, or other Keynsian benefits).
Education
posted by MarkLeavenworth on 5/3/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
And what about numbering systems? Consider the origins of the Dewey decimal system. It is useful for 'global competetiveness', academic systems, and corporate engineering for mass production. But by combining simple counting with geometrical counting plus two counting bases, the young mind is completely confused and debased for a deep comprehension of simple number...possibly the most powerful tool for the individual mind. The same is true of fractions as parts of a whole in place of ratios of wholes to wholes. Also, the confusion of magnitude with multitude.
mr. Bill and mr. Mark part one
posted by adam pondaaga on 5/3/2008 - Be the first to recommend this
Hello mr. Bill and mr. Mark Happy to read your two letter, but first of all I’m sorry if I’m late to response your e mail and also about my bad English grammar. We all have a same time ( 24hours a day ) and in all that hour we must eat, bath, work, sleep and so on. May be the problem is; I thinking in Indonesian language and then translate it into English and during translation it’s need a time. Anyway, my way of thinking is still something like this. Mathematic is universal ; says one day we meet an ET ( extra terrestrial person ) which were they also have an air or spacecraft and then came a question : do you think they ( the ET person ) knows about mathematic ? The answer is yes but difference in notification. We say the Newton law is K = m * a , they have also the Newton law but difference in it’s name, notification etc. Because in making an air / spacecraft , it can not apart from K = m * a. Answer for mr. Bill. About I’m not listed USA , I hope you don’t take care of that because until today the man who have landed at moon still an unbreakable world record. The story on the tower of babel, for me makes me remember the Genesis 11: 1 – 9 ( Holy Bible King James version ) I’m sorry with my impolite example. We back to 1970, computer in it’s early stage. I don’t know what happen in USA but in my country only a big company or a State research company who can owned a computer. And then came mr. Bill Gates who invented DOS ( disk operating system ); computer during that day have not many colour like today just only a black colour and a cursor. Lotus 123 and wordspread is the best program during that day. And today, the computer as a ” system “ ( the word that I still can not give a definition until today ) still alive ( still in it’s growing stage – have not reach its mature stage ). For instance, helicopter / rotary wing as a “ system “ for me know are in it’s mature stage. We will not have a helicopter who can flown from Jakarta straight to Los Angeles ( across the Pacific Ocean ) with 500 people on board like Boeing 747 or Airbus 380. Why ? Too many moving part in a helicopter, may be for military reason we will have more sophisticated or lethal helicopter but that is not my bussiness. Remember mr. Wilbur and Orville Wright, after they show the world that man can fly at Kitty Hawk, the aviation as a “ system “ live by it’s self until today. Go to part 2
mr. Bill and mr. Mark part two
OK during it’s early stage ( before first world war ) may be many government intervention for it’s military reason but today we have civil aviation and military aviation and its all different in it’s law, operating procedure etc. The example for a system in dying stage is a film photograph due to today the digital photograph is more simple. Whatever money will you pouring into the film photograph “ system “ please do not ask about the ROI and benefit ( my boss every meeting word ). For me as long as the “system” still alive the ROI and benefit will come back to you by itself and mr. Bill Gates creates the “system” . The space exploration system ( the SE system ), I don’t know what’s wrong in the SE system but as you said Mars will probably be the next planet we set foot on? For me it’s means the SE system still in before first world war in the aviation system, your country need a person like mr. Bill Gates who create and make the computer system alive by itself. I suspect may be it’s way for entering the earth became the reason. Why ? Because from late 1950 ( the Sputnik era ) until today the way of entering the earth is still the same, that is let the space craft free falling from the space until he reach it’s hypersonic speed and hyper temperature which make mankind must create a material that can hold that hyper temperature. And today I can not answer this, but I’m still distrustful in this part of the SE system ( the earth entering way / something like landing gear system in an aircraft ) Regard, afp Answer for mr. Mark. Thank you my friend for you